Take 20 "Reading"

Question #16 of Take 20, "How do you Respond to Student Writing?" was a short video response comprised of four teachers and their different methods and opinions on the process of revision.

Sommers believes that responding to student writing is the hardest thing teachers have to do, and that they are looking at the consequences of their own pedagogy. She thinks that students are overwhelmed by too many comments. She believes in making a purpose for her response and asks for feedback on her own comments.

Tinberg believes that just as students have to focus on audience and purpose, so does he while making comments to the student. He believes every paper is equally important and deserves the same kind of feedback. Tinberg believes in a distinction between summative and formative comments. Summative is for the grade and formative is for revision and improvement. He believes his comments to be 'instrumental' not a mere justification of his grade.

Sanchez doesn't want students to write with the sole purpose of pleasing the professor which is why he makes general feedback instead of labeling either "A work" or "B work". He tries to close the gap between what students want to do and what they are actually doing. Sanchez tries not to dilute the student teacher relationship by over exerting himself through comments or by being unclear whether he is evaluating or responding.

Rose likes to give personal individual feedback that occurs as you pat a student on the back walking through the halls or by verbalizing praise. He also believes in making personal phone calls to the student to ask them what happened with their paper if it wasn't up to the student normal standards.

Questions:

1. How are the students supposed to revise the paper to receive the best grade if the teacher is commenting generally or vaguely?

2. Why do almost all teachers see the student teacher relationship as convoluted because the teacher is institutionalized?

Persistence of Writing Summary and Questions

The article was very moving in that it made me realize that our age is basically centered around media and not reading and writing. I think that students are beginning to lack the necessary skills for writing and reading, because instead of picking up a book at home for entertainment, we are picking up remotes. Its pathetic and is ruining our generation.

I agree with the article when it says that writing will always have an impact on us and we shouldn't padlock it away because it has become seemingly unpopular.

I love the way the article uses many legitimate sources and quotes to further their opinion and solidify their argument. Not only does the author use modern sources but he also uses older more traditional sources. He also finds support from actual stories not just academic research articles. I find this style very interesting but I can see how a critic would discredit the author mainly by his choices in supporting evidence.

"Without writing the literate mind would not think as it does." This was my favorite part of the text. I loved it and the surrounding quotes because they are profound in their opinions, and I agree with them.

One thing I learned and am interested in are the five canons or precepts of rhetoric that they mentioned toward the end of the article—invention, arrangement, style, delivery, and memory.

Questions:

How do the five canons or precepts of rhetoric relate to writing?

What can we as students do to reverse this trend of the absence of reading and writing?

My Revision Plan

I'd like to firstly thank Bret for editing my paper and being as honest as he could.

I agree with Bret when he critiques my sentences, they need to be more concise and less verbose.

I also agree with Bret on finding a better introduction and better transitions between paragraphs.

I plan to fix the mistakes and re word numerous sentences. I also plan to rewrite a new introduction and possibly conclusion. I hope to add more to my paper as well.

My timeline is as follows: By tuesday I will have read and devised a timeline. By Wednesday I will have revised the first page of my paper. By Thursday, I will have revised the second page. And by Friday I will have a final rough draft to turn in for my first edit by prof. Kat.

Bartholomae and Elbow exercise

Bartholomae Writing

Define writing process:

A writing process is a technique used by authors to help them fully develop their individual ideas into text and onto paper. A writing process is the composing process of writers.

Analogy of my writing process:

My writing process is much like an old biker at a bar, drunk, messy, but has a lot of interesting things to share… Very tattooed and weathered.

Causes and effects of My Writing:

The cause of my writing much has to do with intuition and wanting to be more creative, exploring my own boundaries while recording them.

The effect of my writing is very limited. My writing primarily results in a bad grade.

Testimony (one scholar who supports me): Lynn P Nygaard

Elbow Writing:

Description:

Sloppy unorganized unclear

Tastes like jelly beans sometimes you get the unsure flavor that doesn’t taste good but most of the time jelly beans are pleasant

Feels warm and inviting it comforts the reader

Comparison:

My writing process doesn’t need external validation or a grade, it needs creativity and beauty. My writing process is very untraditional and would put Bartholomae to shame.

Association:

I associate my writing with a picture… Sephia… It takes a while to capture the true beauty but once its done it isn’t forgotten.

Analyze-List Parts of my writing process

I write as little as possible or just as much to suffice for the grade.

Coffee

Computer

Music

Ideas

They all correlate because I need all of them to function even if I’m not writing they are my everyday rituals.

Debate Summary

Elbow/Bartholomae Debate:

Bartholomae argues against Elbow in that he believes teachers are fully necessary in the writing process. He uses academic prose and verbose sentences to try and prove his point. Some of his arguments I thought to be interesting include the following:

Academic writing is the real work of the academy:

To disregard the teacher is to throw away authority power and tradition. All writing done in the academy is academic.

Teachers should not think of themselves are frontier guides but more or less as managers.

Bartholomae constantly attacks Elbows ideas on what i view as a one sided debate.

He talks of a utopia and seemingly underestimates the students. If I could paint a picture of Bartholomae it would be one of a stodgy old man in a dark velvet bathrobe and slippers, who is smoking out of his tobacco pipe at the door to his study. He looks very uninviting, as I try to enter his discussion with his highly esteemed colleagues. He pierces my heart and confidence with his judgmental eyes and unchanging ways.

Four questions I have:

Does Bartholomae free write outside of his academic walls, just for amusement?

What degree of English did Bartholomae achieve, and at what university or institute?

Lastly, does he seem like such a pompus ass to everyone? Is he like that in real life?

My Adventures of Suck Writing

If having a negative score was possible upon evaluating my personal skills as a writer, I would be a negative 13. As an intelligent writer, I lack logical flows of Ideas. The majority of my thoughts are not comprehensible to many people including but not limited to myself at times. I have trouble fully developing a thesis and making correlations of strong ideas to support that thesis. I often times contradict my own words due to the fact that I have trouble making up my own mind... Unless its something I feel strongly for. But, the worst part is I have horrible grammar and punctuation because I constantly rush through my work and don't take time to proof anything.

My personal writing I value most would have to be my journal. I absolutely love my journal which is all black, antique, tattered, and full of all my secrets and ideas of the world and its inhabitants. I enjoy writing free verse poetry because it has no rules that have to be followed and doesn't have to make sense as long as the words provoke thought. Not many people have ever had access to my journal, in fact it is very limited as to who even knows I have one.... Unfortunately now the Internet knows. The only people I share entries with are my closest friends who I value immensely. My journal keeps my deepest thoughts and some of my personal experiences and encounters, it also holds some poems and excerpts of stories. I also enjoy writing down fascinating quotes and text from my peers. One entry out of my journal is this:

"Like a calm ocean I will forever be,

No storms shall rage, no crashing waves,

I will be as still as the resting sea."

Take from it what you may, but don't expect to see any more artsy and deep revealing things that allow me to be vulnerable to your criticism. :)

Elbow Questions

1. Why is Peter so adamant about being a mess? Constructive thoughts and organization of ideas through lists outlines and webs can help people to sort through their own ideas and help to make a logical flow.

2. Why does Peter think the writing process is better without a teacher, whose sole job is guiding you along and helping you uncover new ideas and improving flaws in your personal method?

Peter Elbow's Ideas

A true blog consists of profound opinions either agreeing or disagreeing with a subject topic.... Unfortunately, I do not consider myself to be part of the blogging family, therefore my opinions are not profound or interesting. In mentioning the above statements, I apologize in advance to the readers of this blog on how dry and unimportant you find my postings.

Peter Elbow constructed ideas from his own personal experience on how his writing process works. The you tube video dives into three of Peters ideas.

First the video explains the concept of how Peter Learned by Failure. Peter explains how he dropped out of grad school because of his inability to write a good paper. It was from the experience of failing that led Peter to study the writing process and figure out how he could master it.

Peter is an advocate of Making a Mess. He believes by letting your mind wander and writing down thoughts in no form what so ever will lead to one or potentially many brilliant ideas that couldn't be achieved by writing from a traditional form such as an outline. As a writer it is important to forage into a mess of thoughts to pull out the ones that can be developed into a solid idea or strand of ideas.

Creating and criticizing is a balance. Before anything, you must allow the generative muscle to write a lot, which in turn leads to you opening the door to possibilities... But as a writer you need to be able to criticize those ideas and help to logically make sense of what is written to help make the mess begin to flow.

Peter also advocates Sowing Early Seeds, a process in which you write down all minor thoughts towards a topic and create a pile of them as a foundation for when you start to write a genuine draft.

Peter Elbow shares a writing process that has helped him to be successful through out his schooling and as an author. By no means is Peter Elbow correct or wrong in his assumptions. His process is based solely on experience and may not be the best process for everyone. Personally, I believe that each writer needs to capture his own inner voice and correlate it into a process that works best for himself.